Offical Rule Change Thread

[proturkeyhntr]

From here on out, submit your ideas for rule changes....I have most of what was posted on the initial thread.

s.e.

[ssm]

Here is a rule change that should be put in:

If the Intermediate Champion turns 21 during the year after he or she wins the GNCC Interemdiate division, that caller is qualified for the following years GNCC Senior Prelims.

Reason being, that contest has better callers in it than probably 20% of the contest in the country.

[B.L.]

Sadler, I agree 100% with that one, the intermediate division is packed with great callers!!!!

[B.L.]

I also like the idea being bounced around about a top 3 finish in a State, open or friction event is qualified for GN's. If this is too much then say the highest scoring caller not qualified gets the qualification for GN's.

[ssm]

At any major, the judges must be kept away from the calllers before the contest. the only time you see them is in the caller/judges meeting. then after the contest.
No more of judges sitting in the auditrium for 2 hours listening to guys call.

There must be partitions put up between judges, if u can't, have enough room between them where they can't see what the next judge is giving to callers.

Contest need to be made HANDICAP ACCESIBLE!

If you are not standing there for roll call at the judges meeting, you get scratched. Plain and simple.

[JAKE]

21 to call in ANY and ALL open contests as long as the GNCC has an age restriction for Nationals.No exceptions!

[Jason Conrad]

Everything Sadler said must be done, no exceptions.

Also, a representative from local chapters etc. must be at every sationed calling contest with a list of rules that must be followed with no exceptions.

These folks are changes that can be made right away. A lot of the changes we want to make will take time.

[ssm]

Here is some more -

A judge must sign there scorecard! How do you know who the good ones or the bads ones are if they do not put there name on the sheet?

Take the the words exceptional, good, fair, and poor off the top of the score sheet. just use one blank for the judge to write the score in.
I kind of want to see 1/2 points used, I have wondered before while I was judging, Was that an 18 or a 19? Sometimes calls are right there in the middle.

I would like to see the term"Two Series" be taken out. Alot of judges take that two literally and will bust your tail if they cannot tell that there were two seperate series. Just ask for a call, and score what the guy does. A fly Down Cackle is about all that most guys do two of.

This might not mean much, i do not like the term head judge. You get a big mouth know it all back there and he can sway what the other guys think or how they would score something. To me all the judges are even. I cannot stand it when judges tell the callers how to call or what not to do.

[T.Clements]

Also, Sadler and Mark remember what we said about the judges not being introduced until after the contest is over. They should be brought in all together listening to turkeys on a tape in a room somewhere and not outside talking to callers that are about to call in the finals of a contest. If they just judge the calls that are asked for and not a series "2" times then we don't need to meet with them before the contest to talk about that. Once the contest is over, then introduce the judges before announcing the winners. Judges also need to sign the scorecards..

[birdman]

this post was cut and pastred from another post on kim bailey as judge, but definately should be considered.

In my mind Bailey is the smartest judge. He left alot of room above and below his first callers score so he can better rank the callers after caller #1. If I were a judge the first caller gets a 10 no matter what. From there you can score much easier because you have alot of room above and below a 10 to "rank" everyone else. If the first guy is the best no one else will score above 10. If the first caller is not so great the next callers will score above 10.
I think the whole 20 thing ought to go out the door.
Why? example grand nationals. (everyone is 17 or better caliber there under current system)
I think scores should go from 1-100.
Back to example, first caller gets a 90 no matter what. This gives gives plenty of room to score better and worse calling above and below 90.
Under current system, if a judge gives a first caller an 18, that does not give the judge very much room to play with. Let's say that judge things by the end of the contest that there were 5 guys better than caller #1. He cannot correctly rank them if he gave caller #1 an 18. Because he cannot give the 5 better callers a 19, 20, 21, 22, 23.?.?

This comment really ought to be cut and pasted to the contest changes forum. Do it if you want.
Also do away with caller #1 going twice. Just put a number on caller #1 and give the rest of the callers numbers corresponding to #1(better or worse)

It does not matter if Kim whoever scores everyone between a 10 and 15 and denny gulvas gives everyone between a 15 and 20, just so the ranking is consistant. WE WOULD JUST HAVE TO GET USED TO THE SCORES BEING A LITTLE FARTHER APART. tHIS WOULD ALSO ELIMINATE CALL OFFS....

[witrkytalker]

OK unless im misstaken a Judge is suppose to score you on how much you sound like a real Turkey. Not compare callers and score acording to that.

[Jason Conrad]

I'm sorry but that is the most complicated and ridiculous rule change I have ever heard. We are not comparing caller to caller the score does that. The caller is supposed to be judged according on how much they sound like a real turkey and how much their rhythms are like real turkeys. If I am a judge and I hear a guy that has great sound but not so good rhythms and a guy that has great rhythms and ok sound then I am going to score them the same. I am not going to compare the two callers. If there is a 15 way tie in the finals then so be it, but I have not seen a call off in the finals and prelims very much over the years.

Also, I have heard there is video of judges in the prelims and the finals that were obviously looking at other judges score sheets. If that is true I wished it would be shown. The 1-20 is not a problem. Partitions and judges not being able to change scores is some easy to inforce changes. I know of a caller in a call off that would have been in the finals, other words would not have been a part of the call off. Another caller that would have been in the call off and had a chance of being in the finals if that same judge would have not changed his score. And guys getting in the finals is everything no matter if you are the last spot. There were two guys in the finals that had automatic entries(did not have to make the finals) that would not have made it. One making it in the top five.

Now do I think that both called well enough that their scores should have been in there if not for the by, yes without a question. That is not the point the point is little things that need to be corrected not a bunch of complicated rule changes.

Also, there was one judge that his score was the low throw out for every caller if I am not mistaken in the prelims. Now what good did that do. He just as well not have judged.

[ssm]

i would like to see the score range be the same for every contest. In the Open, Friction, Intermediate and junior a 20 point scale is used, for the Champion of Champions a 50 point scale is used .

It sort of confuses me if a call was a 19 in the friction and a guy did the same call in the C of C (they were bascially identical) What does that equal to on the 50 point scale.
Do you give the guy a 47.5?

[jesse]

i had alot of my scores marked out and wrote over from one judge and one was from 17 to 14 i dont care if it was the other way around neither. point being is a judge looked at the guy beside him and wasent confident with his own judging. portions need to be up between judges. i talked to the guy that runs the worlds i cant remember his name but he was tellin me some changes he was making and I brought that up to him and he said that is one thing they were planning on doing

[birdman]

Bad day Jason, your forgiven.

[B.L.]

jesse, you were not the only one. I know a bunch of people, myself included had scores marked out and changed. This is exactly why partitions have to be put up between judges!!!!!

[proturkeyhntr]

I have to play devils advocate here, and I also had some scores changed...But, do you guys feel it was because they were looking at the judge next to them or we just did something that they didnt like and they changed the score...

s.e.

[ssm]

A judge needs to lay his/her pen down on the table and not pick it up until they are sure the caller has completed the call.

A judge in the intermediate would write a score down halfway through the childs first series.

Give the caller time to either impress you or to make you sick with some sorry calling!