US Open

[WKYHNTR]

Are they having the US Open this year? I know last year it was in Nashville at Bass Pro around March. I looked on the NWTF site and couldn't find it. Does anyone know any info on this?

[Boxcaller]

I believe something is brewing, but it will be a drastic change of venue,.....get yourself a good snow shovel. Might not be until 2011


Pat

[WKYHNTR]

I have used it enough this year thats forsure!

[T.Clements]

I heard they were not having one. No contest Qualifiers at any Bass Pro Shops that I see of. What about the World this yr.? Anyone know?

[ssm]

Hope its not in PA, nobody there knows anything about turkeys!

[Boxcaller]

Sadler,....that is just flat out not true. I for one am positive that I saw several tracks last year that came directly from a large gobbler. there is no disputing this,.....it's just a fact....I KNOW WHAT I SAW.,....AND three miles down the road, it's rumored that the local taxidermist actually KILLED an adult hen during the fall season.,(with his rifle)


Pat

[ssm]

Those are pen raised birds that ya"ll hunt in PA. Everybody knows that easterns are mostly pen raised now!

[Boxcaller]

SO???? .....they have an extremely wild strain of gene's in them.

[ssm]

Bronze X Eastern mix.

[Boxcaller]

O.K. on a more serious note,........how could this or ANY contest be drastically changed to make it more fun to watch as well as compete in??? No more of the same old same old,.....this one's going to get good!! Keep an open mind on this,.......remember it's trying to put some life back into the contest,........you're going to have to throw out everything you know about the old way of calling contests,....and NO i'm not just talking about scenarios.



Pat

[ssm]

Pat, that is the million dollar question! There was a little talk back stage this year at the GNCC about using live hen talk. The hen video or audio would be played for the caller, then he or she has to try to the best of their ability to mimic what they just heard.

You dont get to hear the hen or hens until you walk on stage. All the other callers are held in the back and have no clue as to what they are going to have to do when they walk on stage.

But then you will have the guys that complain- Thats MVC's hen footage or thats Brett Berrys. The hen footage is out there and it is easy to compile and have for them to choose from.

It does away with the guys that have rehearsed programs that cutt or yelp to the exact note or down to the exact second.
It allows the audience to have something to compare the calling with, you hear so often people in the audience saying " all ya'll sound good" well this way you will really be able to tell the ones that sound like a turkey.

The NWTF asked for suggestions before one of the contest at the GNCC and this was brought up by them. They are wanting to do a head to head format, I am not all that thrilled about this one. You have to have a bracket system to rank the callers. If not, two of the best callers will face off in round one, and two sub par callers face off. One great caller is eliminated and one Sub par advances. I am game for anything new, but if they do this it needs to be "very " well thought out. Especialy when you might have to run your calls 4 times to get through a bracket of 16 callers.

I would like to see scores carry over from the prelims to the finals! Shane Hendersot beat out 47 other callers this year in the prelims and didn't get diddly squat for that accomplishment. I beat out 46 callers that day and had nothing to show for it in the end. There have been contest where this would have killed me, but more often than not, it would have helped. Shane would have won the GNCC and Smoler would have been second this year and I would have been third, because we put up damn good scores on both days, not just one day! Some may feel differently, but I think you need credit for what you did the day before to impress that other panel of 7 judges.

I will preach this to the end of time- LEt the callers form the judges pool for the GNCC and rank them. A good many of the judges that you see year in and year out, won't be on most callers list. If I think Pat Strawser,Larry Shockey, Chuck Sykes, Denny Gulvas, Joe Drake, Terry Phillips and Ernie Fetters are the best judges in the land and they score me like crap, I'm fine with that.

Pat Strawser needs to be judging major opens!

[Boxcaller]

Run the prelim's as a normal contest,........but then................
the head to head format will be a good one,........bracketing the callers will be important.......1 should call against 16,....2 against 15, 3 against 14 and so on,.....only the top 8 callers will draw to see when their match is up,.....winner of prelims could get 2 points,...the rest of the top 8 each receive 1 point to carry into their matches,.........first round of matches is 4 calls, (8 callers move on),.....second round is 5 calls (4 advance) third round is 6 calls and produces your final two callers. final two callers take turns drawing calls out of their individual boxes,...each box contains seven calls ,...switching back and forth. this way there is no number advantage and you won't be listening to the same type of call back to back,...one caller may draw the Kee Kee, and the next guy may draw cluck and purr ,however,...IN THE FINAL ROUND ( only the final two callers) 3 CALLS MUST BE DONE BY FRICTION AND 4 BY AIR,.. Yes, it will take a little longer,..but by the time it's over you will have a champion that has really proven himself. We will find out who the best pure turkey caller is. Plus it would just be alot of fun. It will create a million different scenarios that could produce alot of different winners. If nothing else,...I guarantee you it will be the most talked about contest in 2011. get ready,...it's coming.

Pat

[M.V.C]

Pat, you asked for opinions and although I dont usually say whats on my mind I think that no matter how we do things from here on out we need to be compared one on one to wild turkeys and not caller to caller I think the footage is redily available it would give the judes and the people watching something to compare us to and it would improve the level of calling ten fold instead of Sadler and everybody trying to yelp like Mitchel we would be listening to turkeys. I also think that this would work in a head to head situation.

[Boxcaller]

Yeah, I'm with ya'.....that's probably the best example of what we are trying to do,....but what do we do when we have footage of a hen that yelps just like a wingbone call, or the "real" kee kee of a turkey,....or better yet the "real" fly down cackle. Turkey's vary so drastically in their audio,...that it would be almost impossible to be fair on every comparison. In the end,...we are trying to find the best turkey caller on that given day,.....I think everyone who is calling at that level sounds close enough that you could find exact matches of birds for everyone if you went through enough footage. Mistakes, Presentation, Rythm, "Real" turkey sound, added realism, call control,...should all be a major part of what a judge is listening for. I do agree also on some changes as far as a video presentation RIGHT before the contest of a variety of turkeys doing all of the calls,...this should be for everyone to see,....audience, callers and judges. Also the calls should be announced differently than they currently are.

I'm confident if he gets the right caliber of judges, and after a very intense judges meeting, that the right caller will be chosen on that given day,.....there will be just to much calling for someone like me to slip through.

Pat

[M.V.C]

"but what do we do when we have footage of a hen that yelps just like a wingbone call, or the "real" kee kee of a turkey,....or better yet the "real" fly down cackle."


We try to mimick that sound and if we cant! We go home and Practice the real flydown or the real kee kee untill we get it right. I dont totaly disagree with you but untill we incorporate turkeys into "TURKEY CALLING CONTESTS" we will have the same results because after three or four callers we are judging callers based on what callers sound like and not turkeys, and after all it is a contest to see who sounds the most like a turkey, but we should also remember that it is an open which means any calling devise so who says you cant use a wingbone or a tube call? the idea is to showcase the person that sounds the most like a real turkey no matter what they use.

[Boxcaller]

Here's my thinking on that,.......Let's say I have 4 incredible callers to judge,....one is Corey Gulvas,..one is Chris Parrish,...one is Matt VanCise and one is Jim Pollard. there you have a HUGE range of turkey sounds that you will hear,...there will be a drastically noticeable difference among all four, yet all four should probably get "21's" on their calling. I think that is what makes the turkey so unique,..kinda like a whitetails antlers,...they are all different,...Yet the same in a strange kinda way. No one will be able to Master all of the turkey's vocabulary,...it's just not humanly possible,...BUT does that make them less of a caller,...of course not. I just think it will be easier to judge them based off of , quality sound, presentation, added realism and mistakes easier than it would be to judge them against Mother nature's unique voice. Also,..it's not caller (sound) against caller (sound),...it's one caller against the judges at a time,.....this will be quite a task I'm sure,...but it will be vital that you have very high quality judges to make this work. In the end this set up will make it even more important to sound as much like a real turkey as any other contest has ever done. It's probably going to take 1/2 points to really judge this right,...I think it will be that close.

[M.V.C]

Pat, If you can make it all come together like you have explained I am all for it but if any details are left out you and I might be the only ones that show up, keep in mind that there are many callers who do not want change (some of them are on this sight) they are happy with things the way they have always been. the most important part of any contest is the judges and this type of contest will take people like Denny Gulvas or Yourself who dont really care who is calling just whether or not they sound like a turkey.

[Boxcaller]

well,....after what happened in the last election, I can see why people would be scared of change.

........you comin' down on saturday??

[jesse]

when you call the NWTF and they put you on hold you hear turkeys.
they have audio and im sure video. so that would take out people cryin about whos it is. Pat I get what you say about all the real fly down or kee kees, some fly downs are two cuts and wing beats, or even none at all some kees are 5 to 10 note repeatedly before a single yelp. But maybe pick out a turkey doing what we do on stage a "normal" fly down or kee kee run and have the caller match that to his best ability. I love the idea. It will make a caller have to run calls all diffrent ways huff or throat or jaw etc!! whatever it takes to make that sound! I heard MVC yelp on a call that some people didnt like when it was nothin but REAL TURKEY!! and the way had to run it to get that sound was diffrent

just an idea

Smoler

[Boxcaller]

another good point jesse,.....It will be interesting to see what they come up with for that contest.


Pat

[M.V.C]

yes Cory and I are coming down saturday, as far as changes I am 100% in favor of something new, I just want a fair shake at it. I have seen so many goofy things happen over the years at turkey calling contests as has everyone else who has called, I just think we need to be very selective in who we have judge contests because the level of calling over the last five years has improved but some of the judges are still listening for sounds that worked 20 years ago. I have complained as much or more than anybody about judges over the years and I do truly apreciate every guy that volunteers to sit behind that curtain but at this stage in the game we need people to listen to real turkeys and judge based on that and not weather or not there were too many notes or if it sounded like someone else or if it was pretty. I have heard callers make comments over the years that make me wonder just how much they listen to turkeys, one comment I have heard a few times was that Cory Gulvas has a rattle in his yelp, I am pretty sure that was a feather in his throat because I have not heard anything but pure turkey.

[Jason Conrad]

I haven't read all of the posts on this topic so I may have missed something, but I will give an opinion.

I really think that trying to mimic a turkey is a good idea, but I think it will be extremely complicated to judge and if ya'll think we got judging problems now it will be twice as bad in that format. An example is that no one caller sounds like any one turkey totally. You will have judges that will say that caller sounds like a turkey but not that turkey and scores him low. The best example is that I have always scored Mark Prudome's hen yelp low. I just didn't think it sounded like any turkey that I have ever heard. I deer hunted a new place and have heard a single hen that sounds exactly like Mark. I felt so bad because I felt I may have cost him money and a title at the world. That's the kinkd of crap you will run into. The system we have now with a quality set of judges would work fine! What's broke in turkey calling is simply the judging and how uninteresting it is to watch. If they could incorporate something between callers, like videos, cool music or something to keep the audience involved it would be great start. Please don't anyone think that I would be afraid of the turkey to man format, but then contests would take twice as long and would complicate things drastically. I think that quality judges are the complete and most simple answer! Get them and most of us will be happy.

[witrkytalker]

I like the playing of a real Turkey calling just before each caller does each call. I dont think thou that listening for one certain yelp is the answer thats already the problem.
The thing is, is it gonna be random Hens calling because we all know that Hens Yelp Raspy, Hens Yelp clear and the sound can change so much from Hen to Hen or are they gonna make sure that only a certain Yelp plays and a certain Cutting and so on.
I think too many Judges are listening for one certain type of Hen Yelp. When Judging a Yelp they need to be more open minded like I said Hens Yelping varys .
Being a judge is a very tough job and I thank anyone who volunteers to do that job. Judges should be required to sit and listen to real Turkey Cd's before each contest.
The other thing is . I really think the judges before a contest need to be kept away from the callers warming up. A judge could easily pick up on a certain caller they like and then not even realizing there now judging everyone to sound like that certain caller. I also think every contest should have a prelimanary round and a final round and both scores added together. The 1st round just have like 3 calls to make it go faster amd for the final round add 2 judges or rotate 2 judges. Also Judge the call thats asked for not all the bling bling added to it.
Just my 2 cents.

[Millcreek Hen]

When you guys mean I will see you down thier on saturady do you mean the north carolina calling contest? Matt and Pat i mean.

[Jason Conrad]

As for adding the scores together from prelims and finals I think you need three rounds for that to work.